The only cut I could see in the caps is a cut to cost fo the higer tiers on capital ship crew research.

Purchasing the extra cap crew from lvl 1 to lvl 3 for a total of 4 caps aint bad. It's very decent.

Lvl 4 is were it starts to get expensive, but it is still managable.

lvl 5 is you could buy 1½ caps and the other lvls get much worst. The lvl 8 cap crew unlock 3 caps for 19 slots but the cost fot he research would allow you to build 3-4 caps.

That is the biggest problem to gettign multiple caps.

As for the cost of the caps their fine and well priced. What teh problem is is that they are to weak to take much damage for to long. How ever buffing their HP will caus eonly more problems. In my mod I solved that by cutting the dmg that LRF and bombers do vs caps by .25, Thsi simply change has made caps from near usless to very effective forces ont he battle field. With that 1 change you go form having more ethen you free cap a disadvantage to being a substantial advantage. You can still go and fight with 1 cap and fleet, but going 3 caps and a smaller fleet is now an option.

 

 

I don't think we even need consider anything above support for 6 caps.  Unless you're Advent with mass transcendance there's seldom enough experience to go around for that many caps.

Now, I also agree that as far as increasing capital ship longevity we only need to look at LRF and bombers.  Those are the culprits for sudden death syndrome, and other units (LF and fighters in particular) are already weak enough when confronted with a capital ship.  Heavy cruisers are debatable since they come later in the game and have short range.

Well for heavy cruisers in the balance mod I am planing to make them the tool to kill caps with. Bomber will remain strogn againts HCs. So you will ahve a fully functioning counter chain.

Counter list.

Sounts: Scouts, LRFs(to some degre)
LF: Carriers, Flak, Support cruisers
LRF: Light frigates
Flak: Fighters, (Bomber, scouts, lrfs, to varying degres)
Carriers Fighters: LRF, Scouts, Bombers
Carriers Bombers: HCs, Structures
HC: Cap and be decent/good vs everythign else liek they are now.
Caps: Will do 100% dmg all the time VS everything.

I still think Disruptive Strikes is a very good interrupt, even if it doesn't interrupt at all.
PS + DS (if fixed) = the enemy cap is drained dry of antimatter and kept at zero forever. He has to use its abilities immediately or lose the chance to use them at all. Taking away the time to position himself properly and catch the right moment to use MB for example is a big tactical advantage. It is, actually, the only thing the current Kortul is decent for.

Hi Kitkun gonna comment on the Vasari caps, as I don't play other races hardly ever I will not try and get an overall buff or nerf but I've been crying out for them to be normalised because of the egg.  So with that in mind I like your suggestions with the following changes personally:

 

Kortul

Power Surge: I think you are over buffing this, the Kortul already makes a fairly decent tank, I don't agree with the increased shield recharge but this ship deffinately needs something more to be concidered a battleship compared to the Evacuator.  I think adding that wave damage is a great idea.

 

Skirantra

Scramble Bombers: absolutely right, get rid of this ability. it's the last thing I get and never use it, the anti matter cost is stupid and is a waste of more repair cloud.  That plus a few extra bombers makes such a small difference.  However I'm not a fan of the idea of having a debuff against opponents stike craft, Vasari already seem to have a strong strike craft overall compared to other races esspecially with a Skirantra around.  Wouldn't like to tip the balance more.  It should be some form of offencive ability but not sure what.

 

I really like the rest of your suggestions.

You do understand that a Kortul

• at level 10
• with 3/3 power surge
• with all shield upgrades done

receives only slightly above 18 shields per second while Power Surge is active?
A level 1/3 Power Surge on a lvl 1 Kortul gives you => less than three shield points per second <=
This ability is shit and Kortul is no better a tank than most other Vasari caps. It has 5 armor basic, yay.

A Progen with shield restore is a much better tank

 

Or perhaps a better comparison, a Jerrasul with nanos will kill the enemy capital ship that much quicker and relieve you of any need to tank any early game fight.

kitkun,

just wanted to add a few suggestions and make a few comments

1. just wanted to point out that by making adept drone anima 2/4/6, it will have more SC that the hangar SC upgrade.

2. the TEC upgrade cluster warheads should affect the sova's missile batts (just sayin)

3. buff the phase missile swarm differently, (dunno, like hav it disable regeneration for a while, make it more interesting)

4. im gonna get hit in the head for this, but have distort gravitry affect every ship in the gravwell ( makes sense, distorting the planets gravity instead of a certain range)

5. since all sides exept vasari have 2 caps with interupt, have the skiranta ability interupt in some way.

6. this is a very old suggestion made by someone else so no credit to me, switch gravity warhead with subversion

7. change the TEC colonize so it boosts population growth, give all capship colonize abilities to place extractors

lemme kno wat u think

Yeah, Raging Amish has suggested the Scramble Bomber ability be completely scrapped and changed into an anti ship interrupt. I support whole-heartedly. The egg has no need of Subversion, it is totally counter to how the Egg works...Subversion makes sense on the Marauder.

That upgrade is pretty weak, too

In any case, we need to compare to other capital ship abilities, not to unit upgrades.  On those lines, it's extremely weak and will still stand to be sub-par even after the buff.

 

I'm behind this as well.  The ability is already too similar to anima tempest, so it's not even very original content to begin with.  Scrap the ability entirely and replace it with something useful.  An interrupt would be the most obvious choice.

 

Personaly I'd like it if the ability would be replaced with "Kamikaze Bombers". The idea is pretty much take the current ability but add an addendum in programming. Make it so that they can only do one run/strike. When they do their "first attack", the ships are lost, do a little damage, but most importantly, disable abilities on the ship. Oh, and the strikecraft would have to be invulnerable. Not too much to ask for considering they only will disable one ship.

I don't think that ability would be OP, and I do think that would at least make the Egg/Skirantra/Desolator/Devastator decent first choices for caps.

Now here's a legitimate question. The support capital ship is a....to make an obvious statement, a support ship. Would it EVER make sense to pick a supporting cap first? Marauder? Plz. Dunov? It can work, but doesn't bring as much as say a Kol or Marza, or even the Akkan. Rapture? This is probablly the best of the bunch (helps carriers, lowers enemy fire rate) but even then you need to get a fleet to really feel the impact of this ship.

So....I guess my point is, where do our opinions fall here. Would we rather have the support cap made a ship that you must tech, but at the same time is buffed all around to reward the investment, or would we rather keep it the way it is and have it be understood that the support cap should at best be the second cap chosen?

I personally lean towards the latter. It wouldn't be a high tech. Somewhere around Tier 3.

Oh, and I've said it before, but I want to say it again.

I REALLY THINK that the carrier aura buff on the Rapture and the firing rate aura buff on the Halcyon should be switched. The Halcyon is a carrier cap, so it should get a carrier aura buff. The rapture is a support cap, so it should get the firing rate aura buff. It would synergize even more with Vertigo. (Lower enemy firing rate, increase yours.....salivating....then again, maybe that's why these two abilities aren't on the same cap)

Forum go BOOM!

The problem with your support cap theory is that Dunov and Rapture are both decent first choices. Yes they're overshadowed by Marza/Progen, but they work. As soon as you get any frigates, they can help a lot. EMP bomb can help you wipe neutrals cause it does more damage than Vulkoras' PMS (by wiping out shields). Shield restore help you keep your frigs alive. Vengeance can wipe a pack of neutral ships by itself.
Again - yes they aren't as direct as Marza/Kol/whatever , but as soon as you get some fleet, they do help.

Marauder doesn't.

now that you mention it RA, Concentration Aura would be something that WOULD go PERFECTLY on the Halcyon. And vice versa, Amplify Energy Aura would be PERFECT for the Rapture.

Also, I think I know why the Vas are all Phase Missiles. It is because of an UNUSED ABILITY! Essentially, the ability is AEA on the Halcy, but PM bypass efficiency (10/20/30%)!

I realize the issues I'm about to bring up have for the most part been addressed by Kitkun's mod, but not by the devs, so I shall make them anyway.

The EMP bomb has to be shot straight forward, but the dunov is a side shooter. This makes using the ability more than once when you charge into battle cumbersome if you want to get the ideal target.

Magnetize currently doesn't stop channeling abilities, only prevents abilities from being used in the future. (Fighter destruction is a nice plus).

Shield Restore is nice, but it's really hard for me to choose a ship that will use 75 antimatter ( or whatever it is to use shield regen on the dunov) and restore shields on one target that isn't a capital ship (the intended target for this ability) when for the same antimatter I could pick say a Marza and get Radiation bomb or a Kol and get Flak burst, or an Akkan with colonize. I just feel it doesn't bring enough early. I'm not saying it's not viable. I'm just saying the Dunov start gets you killed online 95% of the time purely because the person who chose it doens't handle it well at all.

The Rapture is one that I have the most mixed feelings on. Vertigo, Vengeance, and the carrier buff are all great. Not to mention domination. This doesn't, however, change the fact that overall.....it pales in comparison to the mothership as a first cap choice. This actually isn't a knock on the Rapture, as I love the ship, but more stating that the Mothership is a very VERY powerful ship. I know this is blasphemy, but if you think about it, the colonizing caps should be nerfed down to where the Akkan is. There's really no payoff to pick the Rapture, when I can pick the Mothership and get (arguably) equally powerful combat abilities along with a kickass colonize bonus.

No arguement on the marauder. Ship blows. Needs a redo.  I like a lot of the fixes in Kitkun's mod. Never has and probably never will be a decent starting cap. Outside of the Phase-out-hull being the only anti-channeling cap the Vasari have, this thing brings very little to the table, primarily in multiplayer, but also in single player.